Gooding, David: 5 - Questions & Answers

Hope our microphone picks you up from where you are. Now again, we we don't expect Professor Gooding to answer, uh, all that he has to say about any of the subjects, because we don't again have the time. So, uh, I'll start at a couple that I received last night, and then a few that I received tonight. Some of you give about three or four, so I'll pick one of them, and I hope that everybody is, uh, satisfied with their particular question. We hope to get through them all. I'm not guaranteeing anything at all. Professor, number one, what is your image of the invisible God when you focus on him in prayer, since we worship an invisible God? I don't have any image. And I think I oughtn't. Except if I want to know what God is like as a Christian, I think of the way the Lord Jesus behaved, how he spoke, what he said, how he acted, what he's done. But as for having a mental image of God, I don't have one. And I think we're not meant to try and have an image of God. He goes beyond all our imaginations. We know of him through his word, through what he has done, and supremely through Jesus Christ our Lord. And you, of course, will remember that we don't even have a picture of the Lord Jesus to live. And that, I think, is deliberate. Do you consider that there is a difference between entering into the holy presence of God and coming to the throne of grace in prayer? Is there a difference in your mind? Not in my mind, there isn't. No doubt the person wants, uh, confirmation of something they have in their own mind. Well, I, I, I don't know exact. I'm not sure what the question means, but there is a sense, is there not, in which we're always in the presence of God, for in him we live and move and have our being, you'll say. Right. And in that sense, it's, uh, that we are in the presence of God. But if we come into the holiest of all, as Hebrews chapter, uh, uh, ten puts it, I take it that is, in the sense, coming into the divine presence. Right. Keeping on the same subject, coming into the presence of God. Uh, we approach through the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. He has made the way available. We have the Holy Spirit that helps us to pray. The Lord Jesus had told us in his instructions to address the Father. Is it in any way wrong to address Jesus Christ in prayer rather than the Father? We don't address the Holy Spirit. Is it also wrong to address the second person? Well, I noticed that in the days of his flesh, people addressed requests to the Lord Jesus. If he's the same today as forever, uh, then it can't be wrong to address requests to him now. To see. Eh, moreover, uh, in John chapter fourteen, I think is the passage, our Lord, uh, seems to say, if you ask the Father anything in my name, he will give it. If you ask me anything in my name, I will give it. Admittedly, that reading depends on a variant reading in the manuscripts, but I believe it is correct. So that, uh, I wouldn't say it is, uh, wrong to address, uh, prayer or worship to the Lord Jesus now. Uh, certainly after his resurrection, Thomas addressed worship to the Lord Jesus in the highest possible terms. He said, my Lord and my God. John chapter five, our Lord says that all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father, because he and the Father are one. A change of direction now, concerning listening to God, a two-way conversation where we speak to God in prayer, and we also listen. This listening is quite a problem to some of us. How sh- how would you advise any assembly, any church, to listen to God? As an assembly, not just as individuals, but as a group of people. How do we listen to God as such? Oh. Uh, yes, I th- I take, uh, I take your point and the difficulty of it, yes. Eh, I, for one, cannot speak of any voices ever coming out of the blue at me, so to speak, uh, I'm hearing a voice from the blue. Eh, I think there are various ways of listening to God, one through his word. We need minds, uh, that are filled with his word, and God does use his word to speak to us. And he uses his word when we read it. He uses his word, uh, that is stored in our memories, that his Holy Spirit brings to our memories. I think the Holy Spirit also himself, uh, communicates with our spirits. Romans chapter eight says that the Spirit witnesseth with our spirits. Now, if you ask me how it's done, I can't tell you. But, uh, Romans eight uh, affirms it, that the Holy Spirit witnesses alongside with our spirits and has spiritual communication therewith. Another way that God speaks to us is through prophets. I still believe, please don't throw me out, uh, I still believe that, uh, God has prophets. Not, uh, folks who can go down the street and consult like Samuel did or Saul did for half a crown and get an answer. But God does speak to us through our fellow members of the body, and a word comes sometimes without their knowing it as a word to our hearts, you'll see. Eh, um... I myself think it is important to observe what the Lord Jesus said before he went away. I will manifest myself to you. Uh, I take that literally. I don't think it means that we see visions and hear voices. On the other hand, after the resurrection, before our Lord ascended to heaven, he spent forty days appearing to his own. And I think he gives us in those, uh, occasions little examples of what he did spiritually. To the two on the road to Emmaus, they came near a stranger. They didn't even know it was the Lord anyway, but there was something about it as they talked the Bible with him that, uh, moved their hearts very strongly. They discovered eventually that it had been the Lord talking to them. I think our Lord still does that, not every day of the week. There are times when he comes, and, uh, very often we recognize it when it's finished, what has happened. Similarly, Mary in the garden. She didn't get a long theological exposition from the Bible. Of course, Mary, well, she was a very good soul, was Mary. Perhaps she wasn't, you know, theological Bible study wasn't necessarily Mary's absolutely strong point. Uh, she loved the Savior, and in the garden the Lord made, appeared to her and made her relationship with God so very real. And similarly, for those who were working in the boat, our Lord so interposed that when the miracle was over, they realized it had been the Lord. I think very often it is thus, beyond our powers of explanation, that believers sense that God has spoken and represents a very real approach of the Lord Jesus. Let's at this point be a little bit more controversial in some of the questions that came. The presuppositions of the this, the supplier of this question are obvious, and the question is still on prayer. It's got nothing to do with gifts. Considering one Corinthians fourteen thirteen to seventeen, Paul speaks of praying in two ways. One, he prays with the Spirit, his Spirit, and one, he prays with his mind. He prays in a tongue and with his Spirit, and he prays with his mind, and he s- says that praying with the mind is more beneficial to the church. Would you, the question is, would you suggest private use for the gift of praying in tongues, or would you suggest, uh, that it, uh, be for public use? Now, again, the question is not about gifts. The presuppositions of the supplier is obvious, where they stand. The question is on your instructions to them regarding their use of it in prayer. Oh, one, I do not possess this gift. Two, uh, I would be guided by what I regard as the authoritative direction of the Holy Spirit, who is the one in control of gifts. He says I prefer tongues, that no one is to speak a tongue in the church except there is somebody there to translate the tongue. So from my point of view, that settles it. Because in the church, it is important that people understand. It's absolutely necessary to find that people understand what is being said. We are not to say the amen to anything we haven't understood. Now, Paul does say that he that speaks in the tongue edifies himself. You'll see. So that I believe because Paul says it. He edifies himself. Eh, he speaks to God in the spirit mysteries, so I, I mean, I'm not, uh, d- uh, proposing to dispute what Paul himself says. On the other hand, I take your point, sir, because I think it is Paul's point that when it is possible to to pray in this, uh, with the intelligence, that is with the intellect, as well as in the spirit, it is always preferable. Thank you. Let's jump into another, uh, area of prayer in connection with the doctrine of election, that which God has already chosen to do, what's the use of us praying about it? Two questions on this point have come up. Uh, I'll, I'll mention them together, and you can cover that area then. We pray for the salvation of people, our friends, our relations, and at different times we find that they die in their sin, and they have died without Christ. And the question immediately arises in my mind, in our minds, could God not have done it? Surely he is able to do everything. Has he slipped up? Could he not have done it? How do we reconcile the ability of God to save and the fact that our prayers were not answered concerning our loved ones? Now, I'll expand that later on when you watch that. In the first place, my talk, I trust with great, uh, feeling and respect for people that have unsaved relatives. I say it not as a get out, but because I believe we must be very careful what we say. Some men die unsaved, of course they do, the Bible says they do. But I don't think it is left to us necessarily to say that someone, some such a person is lost. We can say, as far as we know, they died unsaved. But what may happen in the closing moments of a man's life, I think we'd better leave that for God himself one day to tell us. I'm not thereby minimizing the seriousness of, of dying unsaved. People do die unsaved. But in particular cases, let's leave it for God to say. Um, next, uh, when it comes to God's sovereignty and man's free will, I confess I am not able to offer you any explanation that would reconcile the two. I will add that I've never heard of any explanation that reconciles the two, and any co- uh, theory that you come across that does, I should think it by definition wrong. Because in this matter, we are dealing with something that, by definition, goes beyond our powers of understanding. Anybody tells me he has understood it, I shall have the greatest of doubts. So, very often we think of God on the one side and us on the other as though we were cogwheels at the same level. That is not true. God acts at altogether different levels from us. But the relationship between, uh, God's sovereignty and man's free will is an enormous thing, sir, and you're right to say we shouldn't answer that, uh, within all the time tonight, so I shan't begin to try. All I would observe is I'm not aware that scripture preaches that in order to get somebody saved, God bypasses their own free will and decision. To take away a man's free will would reduce him to something less than a man. I don't think God ever does that, not even to get somebody saved. Can I expand on this point then? Question is concerning abusing prayer. For God to preserve life, the life of a Christian or a non-Christian may involve changing of the laws of nature. If in a war situation the person is to be preserved, there may be many miracles that the person is unaware of that the Lord has engineered on their behalf. Is it wrong to pray that the Lord may engineer circumstances like this to change his own laws of nature, perhaps to preserve life, uh, such as calming the sea and the raging storm. Is that an abusive prayer or a use of prayer? There ought to be a word in the English language, yes, no. Maybe. As from some- as from this moment tonight, I invent it. It is for application to questions that deserve both answers at once. The one answer says, yes, all prayer is thus asking God. And I'm reminded of what happened to Zechariah. Zechariah and his wife Elizabeth prayed for a child. They discovered that there's no child forthcoming, so they started to pray for one. Then when they got very old, they stopped praying for one. And, uh, when the angel came and said, you're going to have a child, Zechariah refused to believe. I suspect he was muddle, you know, he he was troubled by that kind of question. When he thought that, uh, you know, God could, all God needed to do was give lit nature a little, little bit of a jog, so she could do the job she normally does. Then Zachariah thought it quite reasonable to pray. To ask God to pray to do something that would involve changing the laws of nature, Zachariah, that was too much for his faith, and when an angel said it was going to happen, he refused to believe and was struck down for his unbelief. So on the theoretical side, yes, ladies and gentlemen, we all ought to be supernaturalists, that God can over, uh, uh, overrule the laws of nature, do they not break them, overrule them, if it so please him. If prayer is merely doing what nature, uh, you know, God answers our prayers only to do what nature would do anyway, even without our asking, then something's gone out of our faith. We ought to be good supernaturalists. And having said that, sir, then I think on the other side, the no bit of the question is that we would, uh, perhaps not expect God to be performing miracles for us every other day of the week. You'll see miracles are miracles. And, uh, God can do them, but if he did them every day of the week, it'd cease to be miracles, wouldn't it? Right, let's jump into another cont- controversy, controversy. Again, one Corinthians eleven and five uh, speaks of sisters praying. Uh, should sisters in the meeting be robbed of the joy of participating in prayer? Oh. The language is a little bit difficult to answer there, uh, the verb to rob. Presupposes the answer, do you see? So it's very difficult to a question to ask because it presupposes that they have the right so to do, and that anybody who says they haven't is robbing them of their right. But that is the point at issue, isn't it? Is it their right. Godly people of careful concern to interpret scripture seriously and responsibly have come to different points of view on the matter. Uh, we'll see one Corinthians eleven gives direction as to the women being veiled when they pray or prophesy, and I presume that means pray and prophesy in the presence of men. One Corinthians fourteen, that finishes the passage, that part of Corinthians, it begins with one Corinthians eleven and ends with one Corinthians fourteen, and it starts with talking about the ladies and it ends with talking about them, you'll see, not by accident either. It says that it is a shame of a woman to speak in the church. The question arises, how do you resolve the apparent contradiction? Now, one Corinthians eleven gives direction for how they are to pray and prophesy, and that presumably in the presence of men. And one Corinthians fourteen gives direction that it is a shame for them to speak in the church, even for the purpose of asking a question. Now, as I say, responsible exegetes and elders of churches have differed in how they resolve what that apparent problem. I have done my best, that is to say, as a rusty old bachelor could, and a rather elderly gentleman could, brought up in various traditions. I've done my best to try and understand these things. I come myself to the conclusion that the distinction is between the church and the home. Uh, what the ladies are said not to do in the church, for it's a shame for them to speak, so let them not ask questions, they are encouraged to do at home. And Paul begins that particular paragraph in one Corinthians fourteen with the words, as in all the churches, let your women keep silence in the church. Now, what they do elsewhere, not in the church, is another thing. Secondly, Paul calls to support him, in my understanding, the law, which I take to be not just a restrictive verse or two in Genesis chapter three, but the whole Old Testament law. In Israel, under that law, the custom was as follows, that they had prophetesses, and they exercised their ministry, sometimes in the presence of men, of course. Anna was such a prophetess. When Mary and Joseph brought the child Jesus into the temple, Anna, being a prophetess, she spoke to those who were looking for the comfort and the consolation of Jerusalem. And quite clearly, in the presence of Joseph, with no more men. So that under the law, women did pray and prophesy in the presence of men. What they did not do under the law, as far as I'm ever aware, is to lead the congregation in the prayers and praises in the temple. Nor, as far as I'm ever aware, did they lead the prayers and praises in the synagogue. And I take it that Paul is saying that, uh, as in Judaism, so in the churches, that kind of order should be followed. I say that sincerely. I hope the sisters, when they hear it, don't say there goes another thief and robber. Because it's, I didn't write these verses. This is my simple, sincere effort to understand them. Other people hold differently, and I respect their view. It is, I think, for the elders of any church to decide before God what they feel that he means, and therefore godliness upon the part of church members to submit to the elders in these matters. Thank you very much. Now let us go into a question concerning our country that we happen to live in, that the Lord has placed us in. And in one Timothy two, we're encouraged to pray for and on behalf of, uh, kings and those in authority over us. Now, bearing in mind our own situation in the north of Ireland, when we pray in such a way, can we thus expect peace and tranquility and quietness as a result? Oh. Well, we are certainly to pray, and we pray in order that we might lead a, a, a peaceful life and all godliness, god-fearingness, and sobriety. Uh, yes, there would be no point in praying, no point in God telling us to pray, unless God were prepared to hear those prayers. Yes? I don't think, however, we must take the, uh, fact that God has bidden us to pray for these things as a guarantee that at all periods and all times there will be peace. This is a complicated world. We're to pray for peace, but you'll see, eh, let us help ourselves by remembering what happened to Daniel. Daniel chapter ten, eleven, and twelve are exceedingly instructive and illuminating on this matter. Daniel prayed for the peace of Jerusalem and for the filling of, fulfilling of God's purposes. Uh, it was revealed to him presently that his prayer and the answer thereto had been held up by reason of the opposition of spiritual powers in heavenly places. And, uh, therefore, uh, Daniel had to wait for the answer to his prayers. You see. And the angel that came, perhaps even the pre-incarnate Lord Jesus that came to talk to Daniel, explained that the purposes of God had been, so to speak, held up and frustrated for a while by the opposition of great spiritual powers in heavenly places. It doesn't mean, therefore, uh, that the moment Daniel sets himself to pray, immediately everywhere there will be peace. You see. On the other hand, it doesn't mean that Daniel's prayers are, um, uh, of no use. I will quote you one other thing that you might care to consider, Revelation chapter eight. John was given to see a scene in heaven where at a certain juncture there came an angel, and it's put before us in picture language, and he came to the golden altar of incense, the altar of prayer. And we're told that at this particular juncture there was given mu- him much incense that he should add it to the prayers of saints. And when he offered that up, then things began to happen. Now here are prayers that had been a- a- asked and asked and asked and asked and asked and asked again, perhaps. There came a point when God remembered them. Incense, so to speak, was added, and the prayers were answered. So that we are to pray. God isn't saying he's going to answer our prayers at once, necessarily. Having said that, I think the world does owe a lot more to the prayers of believers than the world itself realizes. May I just add, I mean, it's important to add that when we pray, we are to pray for all men, all kings, all rulers, all that are in authority. When Paul urged the believers to pray for all the rulers, the particular ruler over them was nothing less than Nero Caesar. Of all the brutes that ever was, Nero was one of them. They were told to pray for him. We are to pray for all in authority. God help us to be wide-hearted in our prayers. Could I just ask another question on that same theme? Uh, let's be realistic about then who we are referring to when we talk about rulers. What would you suggest would be an appropriate prayer that believers here could pray with regards to someone like Mr. Hockey, who, uh, a lot of Protestants are, uh, not inclined to pray for with great fervency? What do you suggest would, would be a suitable prayer, seeing if we take this seriously at all. Well, you pray for him that he get converted to start with, if he's not already, and I'd never met the man, so how can I say? But you'll pray for his salvation, wouldn't you? First and foremost. And if it would help the salvation of the South that Northern Ireland be joined with the South, you'll pray for that too, wouldn't you? Amen. And I hope we, uh, love folks enough that you wouldn't care who owned Ireland, so long as men got saved. Yes. To remember our own gospel, so to speak, you think of the grace of God in Paul, who being a true blue Jew, prepared to leave his sheltered Jewish quarters and come out to us Gentiles. And the wonder of Christ. I was in Nazareth the other year. I was asking the dear man, one of the dear men who translated for me when I preached in Nazareth. He was an Arab. So I asked him, uh, how did the Jews, Jewish authorities treat them? The, the Christian church there, I meant, you see. Uh, some of these dear Arabs have had some of their land taken away from them by the Jews anyway. And they find it very difficult when starry-eyed folks come around and say it's a wonderful God is restoring the Jews to their land? When the aforesaid Jews pinch their ground. Anyway, that's my point. When I asked this dear Arab how the Jewish authorities treated the assembly that I was in, the Arabs said they treat us very well, for they know here that we teach Arabs to love Jews. And I marvel at the grace of God, the grace of Christ in that error. And yes, we too should, shouldn't we, to love all men, green or orange, red, yellow, black or blue, and to seek primarily their salvation. And secondly, that God would, um, uh, uh, so guide these men and give them wisdom that that should be done, that is for the maximum good of man. Our final two short questions then. We have been thinking this whole weekend about persistent and persuasive prayer, about the inability of ourselves to pray at all at times, our sheer helplessness at the task. The question arises, does this persistent prayer then on our behalf change God's mind? Or how should we view it? That's a very difficult question to answer again. It's a very serious question, and a question that troubles many people, you see. Uh, at one stage it seems, uh, almost an impertinence of us to suppose that what we say is going to change God's mind. And yet, what's the sense of our praying if God was going to do it anyway. Have we changed our mind or haven't we? It seems to me that we must allow seriously for the fact that God himself has, by his own decision, left a lot of things open, so that we may ask. He is giving us a genuine choice. He is prepared to listen to our prayers. Uh, he's not changing his mind in that basic sense because it was him anyway who arranged it that way. To leave the matter open, that is part of his decision to leave it open, so that we may ask, and according to what we ask, he will give. Secondly, I commend to you the story of Moses and his intercession when Israel sinned so grievously over the matter of the golden calf. Then God, explaining to us in terms that we perhaps can understand, there's a lot of things in these matters we can't understand. But putting it in language that we can understand, uh, God said, Moses, get out of the way, I'm going to destroy them. And Moses said, but you can't do that, God. So look at this, and look at that, and look at the other. So says God, we're all like Moses, I have pardoned them according to your word. And on the surface, it looks as if God had changed his mind. But first he said, I'm going to destroy them, and I'll make of you a great nation. And Moses said, no, thank you. No, if you destroy them, destroy me, but you can't destroy them because of your name. And God listened to Moses. Now, at our level, that looks as if, um, God changed his mind. And okay, I'm prepared to say at that level, that God suggested this course of action, and because of Moses' intercession, he did the other thing. Having said that, I am aware that, of course, when we talk of God, we're not just talking of God on our level. Behind our level, and God comes down to meet us at our level, there's an infinity of levels, you'll see. And there is a sense in which God never changes. Though sometimes, in order to explain his ways with us, he has to put it in such terms as appear that he changes his mind. I think we would be wise people, therefore, to take encouragement from the way God speaks. Here was God threatening discipline upon Israel, and would have proceeded with that discipline. But, uh, Moses interceded, and the people were spared. The same thing he said in one Corinthians eleven about us. If having sinned and deserved God's discipline, but if we would sin and would confess our sin, then he won't have to discipline us. And be prepared to listen to our entreaties. Our Lord encouraged us in the same sense with the parable in which the man was in debt and ought to have been put in prison, and he besought his lord, and his lord forgave him. And for our purposes, the practical purposes, I think we should not worry too much about the mechanisms, but we should come and pray, and who knows what apparent changes in God's mind may take place. Though, of course, from another point of view, we're well aware he knew everything from beginning to end. It was in his gracious plan that we should come and ask, and so things be often according. A last brief question then, leading into our subject for this evening on worship and praise, perhaps from a younger mind, this one. Sometimes the hymns that we use do not identify with that which is in our own hearts to praise the Lord. I speak on behalf of the person. Are we limited in our praise and worship to the hymn book that is supplied, no matter where we be? Or could you give direction as to how to express our praise in song without being limited to just the words of someone else years ago who experienced that then? Well, would you be limited to the hymn book? Well, in the church of which I'm a member, we're not necessarily. We have a hymn book, but if some good, uh, brother wants us to sing a hymn that isn't in the hymn book, then because he wants us to sing it, he says, do you know this one? And, uh, if mo- a number of people do, we sing that one then. Because no good asking us to sing a hymn we don't know, yeah? But we don't limit ourselves to the hymn book. If there's a nice hymn we want to sing, somebody wants to sing it, and some of the rest of us know it. Well, he said, well, let's sing without the hymn book then, and we do that. Uh, if you're thinking of congregation singing, of course, if we're all going to join as a congregation, most of us will need to know it or learn it. So that is merely a practical limit. Eh, perhaps the question means, do we have to use the antiquated language of, uh, a hundred years ago? Well, not necessarily. If you'd like to make up your own, I'm no good at making up hymns, but if you are making up good hymns, uh, let's get on with it. We could do with some good, really modern hymns, you know. Uh, I mean that say something. Yeah? Not hymns that just repeat words, you know, ten thousand times over, do you see, or sentimental, sloppy things, uh, do you see? And not hymns, if I may say, and choruses with sexual overtones either. We could do with some real good hymns, born out of people's experience of God, to, um, help the rest of us. So anybody here got the gift? Uh, there've been some famous Irish hymns, haven't there? Famous Irishmen. You. Well, I mean, there's been a lot of famous Irishmen. I know that, but I was talking about hymn writers. Uh, the dear bishop's wife outside London Derry there. There is a green hill far away, and Arik Veranda wipes him. What a, what a friend we have to Jesus, yeah. You see? So it's open to any Irishman that's got the ability, uh, to write more, yes. As for our personal expressions of our own, well, uh, so long as you are reverent, my dear good man, my dear good woman, so long as you are reverent, then use whatever language you find best able to express yourself in sincerely and reverently. Yeah? You see, we do have to draw distinction sometimes between our private praise of God and public worship, eh? I heard of a man once who got converted. He was so delighted he came and threw his cap into the air and said three cheers for Jesus. You'll see. Well, I don't know a hint to that effect, but, uh, I'm sure that when the angels heard it, they rejoiced over that sinner that repented as much as they did over a well-trained choir. It was the expression of his heart. Very good for the individual. At his say, doubtless the man progressed in his knowledge of the Lord and found himself able to say even more things lovely about the Lord. When it comes to a whole congregation singing, then I think we've got to choose words that are suitable for the majority in the congregation. Well, now these are a very interesting list of questions, and very variegated, and as you have heard, I'm not proposing to answer them one by one in every particular point and aspect. On the other hand, what I do propose to do is to make a few comments on these questions that you have on your sheet, not full answers to any one question, but some comments on some of them, and then we'll turn to Holy Scripture and learn some lessons from it. Number two, uh, how would you engage in praise or worship? Is worship an event which can be confined to a given time, or is it a lifelong process? It is both. When Abraham was asked to take his son Isaac and offer him up upon an altar upon Mount Arba, Abraham said to the young man, stay you here with the ass, and I and the lad will go yonder and worship and come again to you. In that sense, yes, the worship was confined to that moment. He was talking about an act that he was about to perform on Mount Moriah, and after it was over, he would come back. Or, if you listen to scripture, it will talk about the Jews who at certain set times here went up for to worship at the feast. They're thinking of the special ceremonies and, uh, praises and, uh, rituals that they would have gone through at the temple as prescribed by the Old Testament on the occasions of the great national holy days and the service of God. So that there were times when the worship was organized. It started and it finished. On the other hand, the Christian is right in saying that to be true worship, worship, as the hymn puts it, cannot properly be of the lip alone, but must be made up of the life. Because worship has to do with our attitude of heart, and if the way we live contradicts the attitude that we adopt in worship, then our worship is not much good. Can we be aware of success in worship, that is, by registering a physical sensation of elation? Of course, when we worship very frequently, our emotions are involved. Moreover, when some people's emotions are involved, sometimes another thing gets involved, and that's their sensation. You will notice I have friends, shall tell you who they are, that when they listen to a particularly moving bit of music, their skin goes up in like goose flesh. Or some people are afraid. It's funny how you get the same sensations from different kinds of emotions, isn't it? I've noticed some people, when they get afraid, their their flesh goes up in goose pimples. The emotion of fear has led to a sensation of the body, or an emotion of deep enjoyment and wonder and a lovely piece of music has spilled over into sensation. Yes. It can very often happen, and does, that if a man is moved to worship, it will affect his emotions, and sometimes it will affect sensations. And I've seen people shed tears, genuine tears, for joy as well as for grief, when they have been at that worship of the Lord. Now we must make a very important distinction. Worship that is acceptable to God must be in spirit. It should start that way by. And emotions, then what we feel come next, and if there are going to be any sensations afterwards. Sometimes, uh, we get confused about this, and we try the other way around, and we try to work out the emotions and then the sensations, and the whole thing is artificial, and in the end, barren and carnal. So let me use an analogy. You like, uh, paintings? Perhaps not. Some people do. Now, um, you go into a picture gallery and you see for the first time a beautiful painting. You look at the thing and you're overwhelmed, and before you know what you're doing, of course, your emotions are being aroused. Why? Because you saw the painting and you, you enjoyed it and saw the wonder of it, and that in turn began to affect your emotions. Yes? Then you go home. You say, I, I really enjoyed that. I wonder if I could try and work up those feelings. If I could enjoy that picture again. Now let me have a go, work up the feelings. Well, now that's stupid. You know what you've got to do the next time, if you want to enjoy it again, is go look at the picture again. Yes? Suppose the next time you, you see it, yes, you enjoy it, but that doesn't produce quite the same emotion. Does it matter? The picture is still as good as it was, isn't it? Now, if you're going to, uh, uh, uh, move further in the enjoyment of that picture, you might have to study it now, study it quite hard, and begin to think of what the, uh, painter was doing when he painted that in there. It might exercise your brain now. And you might come away quite tired and exhausted by your study. And your emotions wouldn't have been moved. But you come to understand the picture a bit more, and that's the next time you see it, now it will be even more wonderful, and who knows, you might get more emotions. But whether you get the emotions or not, it's the picture that counts. It's the glory and the wonder of God. If it moves my emotion, that's a very good thing. If it doesn't move my emotion, well, that can't be helped. It's God I'm meant to be concentrating on, and not my own emotions. We do need to be watch that, because sometimes, though we, we know we shouldn't, but we go rather for the emotions and judge whether our worship has been good by whether we've enjoyed our own emotions. Yes? Let's come down to, uh, smaller things, the matter of giving of thanks. You had a lovely Christmas present given you? And like a young gentleman said to me once, just recently, I was like, I do feel so bad, I, I, I, I wanted to say thank you in a, in a, in a proper way, and then I, I don't really say it very well. Do you see? And he was all worried about this. Some people get so worried that they can't say thank you the right way around, they never say thank you. But does it matter, so long as you are grateful, how you say it? When we're giving thanks, what are we trying to do? I'm, I'm giving you thanks, no, watch me, I'm giving you thanks. So you've given me a, a beautiful present. Now, don't you think I'm doing the Thanksgiving very well? I am really doing it well, am I not, thanking you? Don't you admire the way I thank you? I thought I'd be stupid. I thought he was meant to be thanking me, not admiring himself and the way he did it. Who's I didn't do that Thanksgiving dinner? I don't feel satisfied. That ain't the point. To get the sense that you're grateful across to the other person, that's the point. One of the things that worship does, if it's true genuine worship, is to begin to break that endless self-centeredness of which we are so often so guilty. It's our feelings that we're cultivating, wanting to feel that I'm a success even in my prayers. Whereas the secret of worship is not of me and what I say, it's, it's God. Is he wonderful? Does he deserve my gratitude? And as for the sensations, oh, please, please beware of trying to work up the sensations. The Bible has a very interesting story. Allow me to relate it to you, warning us about sensations. Some people feel that they've had such a blessed time if their sensations get moved. One or two people cried a bit and so on. I'm not saying anything against tears and emotions, but be careful. There was a man called Isaac, and God blessed him. Came a point in his life when Isaac had to bless his, uh, son, we'll say. He intended to bless Esau, but Jacob came and stole the blessing. Do you know how he was man- he managed to do that, old Jacob? How he managed to steal the blessing? Well, I tell you. His father, being an ordinary human being, had five senses. Two of them were really dim. You'll say. His eyes were dim. He couldn't see very well. So Jacob, taught by his mother, dressed himself up, uh, put some skins on his hands so they felt hairy, like his brother Esau. And then his mum cooked him a dish and spiced it up to make it taste like venison, when it wasn't all the time, it's just ordinary minced meat. And, uh, in he went to his father, you see. And his father says, oh, you? Who is it? I'm Esau. Oh. But father couldn't see very well, so that eliminated the sight. Father says, the voice sounds to me like the voice of Jacob. You sure you're not Jacob? Oh no, I'm not Jacob, I'm Esau. And Isaac didn't dare trust his hearing, poor man. So he let himself be guided by his other senses, didn't he? He says, uh, give me that venison. Oh, it makes me feel nice. Beautifully spilt it. Taste of the old venison. Poor, he got such a feeling inside. Then he says to, uh, Jacob, and what he called him, Esau, come here and let me smell you. Ooh. Ooh, he says, you're smelling like the smell of the field that the Lord has blessed. And then he says, come let me touch you. And he says, your, your, your is all white. And I can feel food your or hairing. hearing. So So he relied lie. on his smell, and on his taste, and on his touch, and was hollowed in smoke. What ought he to have relied upon? He ought to have relied upon the word of God and the spirit of God to guide him. We do well to watch it in our estimation of God's blessing. God's blessings for us, they can be material things, yes, but now when we come to think of worship, we must think particularly of spiritual blessings. They are spiritual things. We receive them by God's spirit and through his word. And the order is therefore that I believe his word. And God communicates by his spirit through his word to my heart. And believing his word, I have the blessing. Let the emotions come or not come. Let the sensations come or not come. My magnificent point. In some families, you know, I'm told that occasionally, and all very, very occasionally, husband and wife fall out, and they have an argument. And then, of course, in all well ordered households, they make it up. And I'm told, I know, I'm knowing, that the making up is marvelous. Oh, and the joy and the relief and the sensation is beautiful. So here's men, wife, they've made it up, and they've enjoyed it. A week later, the good lady finds the man sitting on the, on the satir in his room. So what on earth are you doing, Bertie? I'm trying to recapture that feeling, you know, when we made it up. Stupid. You shall find believers trying to recapture feelings. Oh, where is the blessedness I knew when first I saw the Lord, and I felt my heart with deep contrition melt. I hope you did. That was very appropriate at the time. But you can't regain and rehash old emotions. Now, what you need to do is to go on further with the Lord. Was it marvelous when he forgave your sin and you found something as his forgiveness? Praise the Lord for that. What about now going on and finding something further about the Lord, letting that move you? Well, here's a man at dinner. You know what it is, don't you, gentlemen? I know this about, I know I've heard it many times. Uh, you're very hungry. You come in and sit down to a beautiful meal, uh, and it's not just doing you good, but all the lovely, delightful feeling. I hope you enjoy your food. I do immensely. And all the delightful feeling you'll get this food going in you. And you sit there. What would you think of a man he'd been sitting there now, had long since finished his dinner, and, uh, he's just sitting at the table, so his wife comes up and says, are you finished? Uh, would you like some more? No, I don't want no more. Oh, what are you sitting at the table for? I was just trying to get that feeling. Stupid man. No, the feelings only come as a result of being hungry and being fed, what? It's only a side result of the actually enjoying the food. And he would be an even foolisher man who tried to work up the feeling without the food, wouldn't he? And so let it always be God's fact. His word made real to me, himself made real to me by his spirit. Let me believe it. Let me thank him for it. Let me open my eyes and see how wonderful God is, and let me tell God how wonderful I find. And if I feel emotion, well, praise the Lord for that, and if I don't, well, never mind. And if I get sensations, well, I can't help it, and if I don't, don't let me try manufacture. For our worship of God also is a matter of faith. Oh, is the singing of hymns, says question five, uh in any way even remotely related to praise? Well, I should hope it is. The Psalms are a kind of hymn, aren't they? And Israel, in their singing of hymns, pray- uh, in their singing of hymns, were praising God. Yes, of course, hymns are a form of praise. And our Lord at the Last Supper, did he not, just before they went out, they sang a hymn. Yes, of course, we can sing hymns mechanically and with our, uh, our hearts far away and our minds far away as well. But we're talking about people doing things seriously, of course, hymns are a form of giving praise. Um, if we are to worship in spirit and in truth, can the use of time-honored cliches be justified? Well, it depends. If they're good cliches, yes. Yes. Or again, I quote the Psalms. Our Lord used the Psalms. Generations of Israelites used the Psalms. We use them still, don't we? The Lord is our shepherd. I shall not want. Really what? Been around for hundreds of years, thousands of years. Nothing the worse for them. So there's nothing wrong in using phrases that have been around for thousands of years, uh, if you can sing them and they mean something and you can sing them intelligently and meaningfully. Of course, bad old cliches, mumbo jumbo phrases, you know, that get used, uh, well, again, uh, let's try and speak the best we can. Let's not be unduly critical, however, of other folks. Some folks find it easy to express themselves. Some folks find it very difficult to find words, so they borrow words from somebody else, and they use them. The real thing that matters is how sincere they are being. On the other hand, for public worship in the church, let's see to it, if we can, that we're talking, uh, realistically and not just mouthing a lot of phrases that really, when they're analyzed, mean nothing. Let's talk from our hearts. And if, uh, you find it difficult to to think of words, well, you need never be ashamed to use the words of Holy Scripture here. I will bless the Lord at all times. Praise will be continually in my life. If, uh, now about the Lord's Supper, if this service is, uh, considered to be one of remembrance with the emphasis on our Lord's death, is the idea of praise and rejoicing out of place, and therefore these two things, the Lord's Supper, the remembrance of his death, and praise, are they mutually exclusive? Well, no, surely. When the nation mourns its dead and commemorates its dead who dies in the war, are there not very often some people that get up officially on behalf of the nation and praise the courage of the men and the devotion of the men who gave their lives? The fact that it is a sorrowful thing, it, on the other hand, doesn't stop people very sincerely praising them who died for their sake. And so surely with our Lord, even though we remember his sorrows, and we do we not well to praise him for the love that took him to Calvary. I see the point that, yes, it was a sad thing, and yet, you know, Calvary was a tremendous triumph, wasn't it? And the Bible tells us that when Christ gave himself for our sins, it came up to God as a sacrifice of a sweet smell, something that delighted the heart of God. That here on this earth there was someone that was prepared to do his will to that extreme and do it. So it isn't inconsistent with prayer. And there for the moment then I'm going to leave it. I'm given permission not to ask, answer all the things in detail, and I couldn't anyway. So let's then leave that side, and for our final study, let's come and read in Holy Scripture.