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It was pointed out to me, when some week or so ago I inquired of the organizers of this conference, that the three sessions were like the phases of the moon. The first one was a full hour, the second one diminished, and the third has come to small proportions. According to the timetable given me, this meeting now, this session goes on till three forty five. So that, just let us recap for a moment what has been the chief of the passages that we have studied so far. In First Corinthians chapter twelve, we heard Paul talk about the gifts of the Spirit, and from the start he emphasized the diversity of the gifts of the Spirit, showing that the diversity of gift is a reflection of the diversity of the person's in the Godhead. But just as the persons in the Godhead are distinct and yet are one God, so the gifts in the body of Christ are diverse, and yet there is only one body. And from the fact there is but one body stems the necessity that the gifts in the body should be many and ju- just not one or two. A body that was composed of one member only would not be a body, and if one member predominated over all others, it would be grotesque. That being so, we gave ourselves to remind us again of how we enter the body of Christ. We don't qualify for that entry by having a special gift. We enter that body by the grace and mercies of God, and through the salvation that is in Jesus Christ, our Lord, who baptized us into the Spirit and made us to drink of the Spirit when we came in repentance and faith to him as our Savior. The body of Christ, therefore, and being incorporated into it, is an integral part of salvation, and not something that is added on as a deluxe edition to. So then, that being so, allowing ourselves to consider the wonder of this great salvation. We turned in our second session to chapter fourteen of First Corinthians, to listen to the Holy Spirit exhort us and instruct us as to how we are to use our gifts in the church, as distinct from using them at home or elsewhere. And there the rule was laid down, the preeminent rule, that in our seeking of gift and in our exercising it, the only acceptable motive is love. And since that love means not love of ourselves, but love of others, love insists that when we exercise our gift in the church, it shall be to the spiritual benefit of others. Therefore, the exercise of gift in the church is not aimed at the benefit, the spiritual edification, comfort, and consolation of the other believers, is by that definition outlawed. It mustn't be done in the church. It is an offense against love. And what the practical implications of that are, we sought to gather from somewhat detailed following of the argument of one Corinthians fourteen. But now we revert to what is possibly the more im- most important of all three chapters, the link chapter between chapter twelve and chapter fourteen. For as Paul finishes chapter fourteen, he reminds the believers that though all gifts, all members of the body are necessary, some gifts are greater than others. And the measure of, uh, greatness is determined by the public edification that such gifts produce. To put it in plain practical terms, when we exercise our gifts in the church, the Holy Spirit will ask us, what use is it? What spiritual benefit does it convey? So now we turn to chapter thirteen. Let us read it together. For here Paul tells us, yes, seek the greater gifts, but follow after love. One Corinthians, therefore, chapter thirteen. And first, some verses on the futility of the use of gift are motivated by love. If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or clanging cymbal, making a lot of noise, but empty noise and profitless noise. And if I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. Now notice the difference of phraseology, if you will. The first verse said that if I do these things without love, I'm just empty noise. The second one says that if I do these things, it doesn't say that's empty, for if I do remove mountains by my faith, well, that is something, isn't it? But Paul reminds us that if I have, uh, uh, if we have all faith so we could remove mountains, but have not love, we are ourselves nothing. Count for nothing in the order of gifts. Verse three, and if all, if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing. Notice he doesn't say it doesn't profit other people anything. For if I give my money or clothes to someone impoverished, and though I do it out of bare charity, loveless, nonetheless it is of some benefit to the ones who receive it. But in God's calculus, it does me no good. It profiteth me nothing. Then there follows in verses four to, uh, seven the characteristics of love. I shall just read them without comment. I would fear to comment on them, and certainly to preach them to you. I would say I need, first of all, to consider myself, whether I am marked by these things. And you may care likewise to consider yourself as we read them. Love suffereth long and is kind. spite of the long suffering. Love does not envy. Love does not vaunt itself, is not puffed up. Does not behave itself unseemly. Does not seek its own. Is not provoked. Taketh not account of evil. Does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. And may God, by his spirit, develop those qualities within us who are members of his body. The verses now which follow contrast the permanence of love compared with the transience of gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge, he is speaking of the gift of prophecy in believers, and the gift of knowledge in a sense of special knowledge that is given to some. And he is about to make the contrast between the permanence of love compared with the transience of the gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. And he specifies the differences. I should be suggesting he speaks first of the amount of knowledge and of the information imparted through prophecy. Then he will speak of the mode of speaking and of thinking and reasoning. And then he will think of the medium of seeing and perceiving. So he says, love never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away, become obsolete. Whether there be tongues, they shall cease. Whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away. For now comes the amount of knowledge. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. We notice, therefore, Paul is here talking about the amount that we know, that we know now as to seeing from that when that which is perfect is come. A lamp is useful in the dark. When the sun rises, its little light is merged and becomes indistinguishable from the light of the sun. The question is of the amount of light. And so here, the amount of knowledge compared with when that which is perfect is come. Verse eleven: when I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things. Here it is not so much the amount of knowledge and thinking, it is the mode of thinking and seeing and perceiving. Have you ever heard a little boy come home from school and, uh, you, uh, uh, he tells his mum and dad that there's a lovely little girl called Mary in his class, and he's going to marry Mary. And the parents nod wisely, and they say, that's a nice, nice idea, Johnny. But of course, what Johnny thinks about marrying and what the reality is are two rather different things, you see. He's speaking as a child. He knows that there's something about marriage. He knows his mum and dad are married, and uh, so he's thinking of marrying Mary. But his mode of thinking, his mode of perception is rather limited compared with what it will be when he ca- becomes a grown-up man. I'm tempted to say here, I love the metaphors of scripture that describe eternity to us and the glorious eternal city. And I believe those metaphors, for they're God-given metaphors. And I learn to be content with the metaphors as God has used. I can trust them, but I realize they are metaphors. He that sat upon the throne, this is a simile, was like this, was as that. And I perceive their similes or metaphors. Oh, I look forward to see the reality. But for the moment, I must be content to know that my perception is limited. And what it will be to dwell above and with the Lord of glory reign. And when we see him, the knowledge we now have will not pre-prove false. It will disappear in the brilliance of adulthood and seeing the Lord face to face. When I became a man, therefore I have put away childish things, but now the medium of our seeing and knowing. For now we see in a mirror darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then shall I know, even as I also have been known. The medium. First he says, we now see in a mirror, darkly, the English darkly translates the Greek en enigmata, means as a riddle, an enigma, and a riddle has to be interpreted. And we see as in a glass, in a riddle that has to be interpreted. That's different from seeing directly and face to face. Then we shall know as we are known. So the distinction between the transience of the gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge, and what is here described as that which is perfect. But you will know, as of course I do, that when it comes to understanding what Paul means by that which is perfect, Christians have differed. There are, in fact, a number of different understandings of that which is perfect. I shall put before you two of them. I want to say that each is held by godly men and women, whose motive is to understand what the Holy Spirit is saying and let it govern their behavior. And both, I say again, are held by godly men and women. And if you find eventually you disagree with me, I hope you'll love me still, even if you never invite me to come again. Yes, and if you disagree with me, I shall try to love you just as much as I did before. Let us not divide the body of Christ by our variance of understanding in verses like this. Since differences of opinion on this matter will govern practice in the churches, let us own the good faith of our fellow believers and be careful with their consciences. So then, the first view. That which is perfect or complete refers to the completion of the risen Lord's revelation of his truth through the Holy Spirit. In favor of that view, you could quote John chapter sixteen and verse thirteen, where our Lord said to the apostles about the coming of the Holy Spirit, he shall guide you into all the truth, and he shall show you things to come. So according to our Lord's promise, the Holy Spirit came and has as one of his functions the, uh, guidance of believers, uh, into all the truth. Hence the authority behind our New Testament epistles and behind the revelation, the ongoing revelation to the apostles and through the apostles of the whole truth of God. In this view, when Paul was writing First Corinthians, that guiding of the, uh, church into all the truth was not yet complete. Hence the need for special gifts, uh, the gifts of special knowledge, the gift of prophecy, and the gift of tongues, and the sign gifts of miracles and healings. And according to this view, the argument goes that when the revelation of truth was finally complete, and the faith once for all delivered to the saints, the need for these temporary gifts ceased, and they were no longer available to the church. What authority is there to think that the revelation of God was completed through the Holy Spirit? Well, one could quote Jude chapter three, where Jude exhorts the Christian to strive for, contend for the truth, once and for all delivered to the saints. Jude seems to indicate that by ti- by the time he wrote his letter, the church had the complete revelation of the truth that our Lord promised the Holy Spirit would bring to them. View number one. And its implication is that once this revelation, the guidance into all truth was accomplished, the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, temporary gifts would cease. Of course, the giving of that truth is one thing. The spread of it through the world is another thing. There are pass- parts of this world where the gospel has come to, and as yet, of course, the believers do not possess a complete New Testament. They're very fortunate if they have just one gospel. And though the truth has once and for all been delivered to the saints as a matter of objective fact, it wouldn't be true to say that all believers everywhere have the full record of that complete objective truth. That is one view. I emphasize it is held by godly men and women seeking to understand scripture as exactly as they can, and acting upon it. The other main view, there are several smaller ones, the other main view is this, that when that is perfect, complete, comes, and then when we see face to face and know fully as we are fully known. This refers to the Lord's coming, when we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. You are all agog to know which view I espouse. I dare not tell you. You see. Hence my elaborate preamble to this thing, to avoid the slings and arrows that come from the opposing interpreters. And I believe that that which is perfect refers to what shall happen when the Lord comes. One of the considerations that moves me in that interpretation is this. When Paul sat down and penned First Corinthians, I asked myself, how much did he know? He knew all about justification by faith, surely he did. He wrote Romans perhaps when he was in Corinth. He already knew the truth of Galatians. He knew the truth of Thessalonians. He preached it in Thessalonica before he left, and in his letter reminds them of what he taught them when he was with them. True, he hadn't yet been imprisoned, and he hadn't writ- written the prison epistles, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians. And he hadn't yet written the pastoral epistles, First and Second Timothy and Titus. Now I ask myself a question. Compared with what Paul knew when he was at Corinth, and compared with what he would know when the whole New Testament was complete. Would you think it were good to compare it to this? When he was in Corinth, he was thinking like a child. He only thought childish things. If only he had had that at that time, Philippians, Col- uh, Ephesians and Colossians, he would have been a grown-up man. I personally find that view very difficult to accept, but I've been honest, have I not? And told you. Here are things, therefore, for us to think about seriously and patiently, one with another. But of this I rejoice. Particularly with my particular viewpoint, but then it's true of you even with your viewpoint. That one day we shall see the Lord. And when we see him, we shall be like him. What glory and rapture that will be. Paul ends his chapter with the words, now abides faith, hope, and love, these three. But the greatest of these is love. Opinions differ, as they so often do, and what he means by the verb abide, now abides, what, just now at this present time. Love will last until the Lord comes, even though prophecies, tongues, and uh uh uh uh and miracles have ceased. Does he mean that? Hardly. For love is of God. It shall abide for all eternity, shall it not? Mm. What about faith and hope. Now I must be very careful because they won't be, uh, if I get this wrong, it won't be slings and arrows, it will be cannonballs that come at me. Now abideth faith and hope while we are yet here on earth. Yes. For what a man seeth, why does he yet hope for? Says Paul. We are saved in hope. For what we see not, that we hope for. And we're looking forward with ever increasing hope to what we shall have when the Lord comes. Hmm. So hope won't exist in heaven. Oh, if you say that, you'll disappoint me, but never mind. My disappointment is not a p- important thing. What about faith? Oh, there you say, my dear good preacher, we can't need faith in heaven. I mean, now we walked not by sight but by faith, but when we see the Lord, we shall be like him. We shan't need faith anymore when we get home to glory. It's a marvelous observation, isn't it? Are you sure you'll not need faith when you get home to glory? I don't want to pry too deeply into your heart, but when the Lord tells you something when you're in heaven, that this is what the Father has decreed, and this is what's going to happen for the next five million years, will you be at liberty to say, well, that's what you say, Lord, but I really, I don't trust that. Or would you still have to go on believing him? What would you say about that? Lord, I'm here now. I trusted you all my life through, and you maintained my faith through thick and thin, Lord. Thank the Lord you maintained it. I'm now in heaven, and now I don't need faith anymore. Really? Or I just put the question to you. I'm aware of this, that God is allowing all kinds of circumstance in your life and mine to refine our faith. Because for him it is of gold, like gold it is. And he allows us suffering to remove the dross from our faith, because our faith is so important. And will you have it so that when our Lord has got the last drop of dross out of your faith, the irre- irrelevant excitement, all the secondhandness of it, and its real and personal faith, unalloyed faith, at the cost of much suffering on your part and some in his, that God will take that gold of faith and throw it into oblivion forever. I think it more likely that though in one sense we should no longer walk simply by faith, but will see many things, that the faith that God has perfected in this vale of tears, he will use in his relationships with us through all eternity. Oh. Oh. You say, well, eh, you might be right, Mr. Preacher, very doubtful. I, I, I don't think we shall need faith, but we certainly won't need hope. We shall have everything, can't we? Uh, tell me a little bit, how long are you proposing to be in heaven? Will you be like God and know everything, infinite in your knowledge, and infinite therefore of the so-called future of eternity, going to know everything. By that perversity that I have, I hope not, because I want eternity, however long it lasts, to be typical of God, for God is so big. He's always doing the most unexpected things, is he not? There was a time when he hadn't created the universe, and then he went and created it. What a new thing that was. There was a time when the second person of the Trinity was not human. Can you really believe it? Do you believe it? And the God who in one sense is changeless in character and never changes, yet in another thing is so big that he is forever doing new things, and what a startlingly new thing this was, when God became human without ceasing to be God. You will not tie that God down, never to do anything fresh throughout all eternity, will you? Cool. I'm going to hope, well, certainly while I'm here, I'm going to hope that eternity will be a vast succession of the variegated wisdom of God, with God doing new things and wonderful things for all eternity. Be careful. If I'm wrong, deal with me gently. Don't remove, undermine my faith or my hope. And so let us conclude now with a brief prayer before we turn to our questions. Our Father, we thank thee for thy word. For him who is the personal word of God. And for his condescension that he came and spoke our languages, that we might know thee. And for these wonders that we are linked with him and part of his body, and gifted by thy spirit, for this we bless thee again. Help us to be thy responsible children, we pray, and to use the precious gifts thou has given us wisely and with adult thinking, and in touch with thy spirit. For the benefit of all the members of the body of Christ. And even as we have thought of things, these things this day, and thank thee for the understanding that thou has given us, we confess our ignorance before thee and pray the gracious, uh, teaching of thy spirit, that we might constantly learn and leap further into thy truth, nor become, uh, mere frozen relics of the past. Bless us now as we turn to discuss with each other the questions that have arisen. Give us wisdom and understanding, we pray, that in all things we may glorify thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. Now I am told I have to proceed at once. Mr. Chairman, is that so? I have to proceed at once to answer the questions here given me. And I take them now in the haphazard order, uh, that they are, uh, uh, come to my attention. Oh, here come some more. Yes. And our time, I think, is limited to, to something. To four fifteen. This one reads, if speaking in tongues is one of the gifts of the Spirit, why is it that some people in certain Pentecostal churches speak in tongues, and some Bible-believing churches don't believe in this? The short answer, and my answers must be short, else I shall not get through the question, is that some believers believe that the gift of tongues is still available. Some Christians go further than that, and they think that the gift of tongues ought to be used in the church. You have heard my answer to that question, I think, already, that in the church there is to be no speaking in tongues unless there is a translation given. And when it comes to spe- seeking and desiring gifts, we are to seek the greater gifts. Now that, for my part, impresses me very strongly and has done for this last forty years. I say this with all Christian charity, I hope. I have not understood why thousands and millions of people have been encouraged to seek tongues, when the Holy Spirit's directive is seek the greater gifts, which he a- then explains to be not tongues, but other gifts. Question number two: Would you explain chapter fourteen verse two? For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Well, I understand that just as it stands. When Paul says he that speaks in a tongue speaks to himself and to God, I take Paul to be saying exactly what he says, so that's how I understand it. You'll see. Uh, he's talking, we observe, of speaking in the church. You'll see, and makes the point that they who speak in tongues, if there's no translator present, they must not speak in tongues because the rest are not edified by it. And edification is the indispensable requirement of speaking in the church. So if there's no translator present, let him speak to himself and to God, but not to speak to the church as a whole. Are the gifts spoken of in one Corinthians twelve eighteen to eleven, one Corinthians twelve thirty eight to thirty, the list of given there for today's church. I'm not the sovereign governor of the church. I mean that seriously. The Lord is still, uh, sovereign to use what he pleases. I notice that sometimes in countries where they do not have the Bible, God, for instance, speaks in visions to those that do not have scripture. I would not deny supernaturalism. I believe God can heal supernaturally. But I don't think there is a universal gift such that Christians never need be ill. And they who have said that Christians, if they only had strong enough faith, would never be ill, they would always recover. I have myself witnessed the undermining of faith, disastrous undermining of faith, that that has caused among true believers who have remained sick. And as far as the gospel is concerned, in other countries in Eastern Europe, when evangelists have professed that all who come, if they only had enough faith, would be healed. I remember a case in Bulgaria where a man propelled himself for eleven kilometers to come to these meetings where it was advertised everybody would be healed. He was paralyzed. He came to the preacher, and the preacher said, in the name of Christ, rise up and walk, and gave him a hand and pulled him up, and the man stood, and when the preacher let go, he collapsed. And the atheist press was around them in a minute. Why was not the man healed? And the preacher said, because he didn't have enough faith. And the press said, are you really telling me, you're telling us that a man who propelled himself in a wheelchair for eleven kilometers didn't have any faith? So we must be exceedingly careful. We must not deny supernaturalism on the one hand. We must, as the Holy Spirit exhorts us, use our minds to understand what is in order and what is profitable. When did Paul, when did Paul speak in tongues, and was it different from Acts chapter two? Did he need an interpreter? I think the purpose of tongues, its prime purpose, as given in the New Testament, is such as was manifested on the day of Pentecost. A miracle that the unconverted crowd could see was a miracle, because they could understand the language that was being spoken and were aware that the speakers did not know the- themselves know that language. So it was a self-evident miracle. That is a very powerful use of tongues. I don't say it cynically to say, if you have the gift of tongues and can use it to that fashion, there's a big world out there, or use it as much as you can. But in the church, says the Holy Spirit, what is its point? It is useless in the church, unless there be an interpreter, a translator. Then why use it? Listen to the exhortation. Seek the greater gifts. And what he means by greater is the Holy Spirit's own interpretation. Another question. You mentioned that God has made this same Jesus both Lord and Christ. Was he not always Lord? Please explain. The second person of the Trinity was always God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Don't interpret that sentence as as if it meant the Word was God but isn't any longer. That would be a false emphasis. The emphasis in Greek is that the Word was God, and nothing less. The Word was made flesh and tabernacled among us and became what he wasn't before, human, but without ceasing to be God. But now God acts is talking about his exaltation, and God has made him, that is demonstrated him to be both Lord and Christ. In the immediate context, it is by the fact that our blessed Lord poured out the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not so much stuff, I say it reverently. Holy Spirit comes from the divine person, the third person of the Trinity. If Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit, who must Jesus be? None other than one who is God could do it. In raising him from the dead and seating him at his own right hand and giving him to pour out the Holy Spirit, God has made him in the sense of demonstrated it to the world, that Christ is both Lord and Christ, given him a name which is above every name. If the function of tongues is primarily as judgment upon unbelieving Jews, why did Paul wish they all spoke with tongues? I would that you all speak with tongues, but rather, Paul has a preference, and the preference is dictated by the Holy Spirit. It is not, I wish you all spoke with tongues and that you prophesied as well. It is, I wish you speak all with tongues, rather that. This is a preference. And I suggest we listen to the preference expressed by the Holy Spirit. Rather. Why rather prophecy? Because in prophecy, someone speaks to the edification, comfort, and consolation of his fellow believers. Has prophesying ceased? If not, why do we not have it in our churches today? It depends, my good fellow Christian who wrote the question, what you mean by prophesying. To some people, prophecy is prediction. And there was that element in the early church. There came down a prophet who predicted that there would be a famine in Jerusalem. And, uh, the famine came to pass, and as a result, the Gentile Christians took up a collection of money to ease the distress of the believers in Jerusalem. The prophecy, therefore, was a prediction, and a very helpful prediction it was in the ancient world, that provoked that response by the believers to help their Jewish fellow believers. Incidentally, they who claim to be prophets in that sense and predict the future will know it, of course, that this is a serious thing to do. A prophet who predicts the future and his prophecy doesn't come true. The Old Testament has some very severe penalties upon that kind of behavior. This is not a something to be played at irresponsibly. The prophecy doesn't come true. That prophet said the Old Testament must be executed. But prophecy is more than that, isn't it? One Corinthians, uh, uh, fourteen tells you what prophecy is. He that gives a prophecy speaks to edification, to comfort, to consolation. And I think that is exceedingly important. A teacher will teach you the facts of the, of doctrine. Very necessary it is. But it is one thing to expound the facts of scripture. Another thing, when God uses a servant of his, not simply to increase our knowledge of the facts, but to speak to the heart. So the believer knows, this is God has spoken to me today. I have known that kind of ministry happen in the church. I've known it happen unbeknown to the speaker. When the Holy Spirit has taken something that he has laid upon the heart of the preacher and speaker to speak, that has not only encouraged all believers, but has spoken with a powerful force to somebody there that have known it of the Lord. That ministry of prophecy I hold to be exceedingly important among the people of God. We must beware of all fanciful imaginations, but that is, in my estimation, one of the functions of the Holy Spirit's gift to the church in this present time. When I say that, let me add another thing. At the end of one Corinthians fourteen, Paul says, let the prophets speak one, two, or three, and let the others judge. Now, sometimes I have been led to question my dear friends who wish to advocate tongues and, uh, prophecy, and I say to them, yes, but we're told to judge, that is to, in a friendly way, to criticize. And sometimes they respond and say, that's very worldly, that is. You should accept it as the message of the Holy Spirit. And I reply, well, I am charismatic, you know. They say, what do you mean you're charismatic? Well, one Corinthians twelve says that all these charismata of the Holy Spirit, one of them is a te- is teaching, and I think if I'm anything, I'm a teacher, and therefore I'm charismatic. And my friends say to me, no, you're not. I mean, what do you mean, no, I'm not? Well, they have the notion that straight teaching is not somehow charismatic. It is one of the gifts. I am in that sense charismatic, praise the Lord. You'll see. Let's not get these things out of proportion. And my point in mentioning that is this. When I, I, I stand up and dare to teach in the company of my fellow believers, no believer of any sense that I know of ever says, well, Gooding said that, so it must be true. We'll be tied them if they take that attitude. You have to criticize what I say, not in a, in a carnal way, but you have to judge it. And you'll judge what I say by taking it once more to Holy Scripture and say, well, that bit he said was a self-evident of the scripture. That other thing he said was very doubtful. You must judge it. And so you must judge the other gifts too. And just because someone says it's a prophecy doesn't mean that they are exempt from being examined very closely. We are to do it, says the Holy Spirit. I'm not getting on very fast, uh, you'll see. If interpretation of tongues is translation, then how is it a supernatural gift? Uh, is it a supernatural understanding of a language you don't know? That could be that, I should imagine. What I'm stressing is that it must be a translation of what was originally said, and not a different message altogether. We have heard, haven't we, of instances where people have given a message in a tongue that's been recorded, and then someone has taken the recording and played it back to someone who professed to have the gift of interpretation, and they have given one interpretation. They've taken it to another person that professes to have the gift of interpretation. They've given a completely different interpretation, and so with the third. And some people say, serve them right, they oughtn't to have been so carnal as to make the attempt. Ah, but the Holy Spirit says we have to judge. Even that. And it can't have been the original message being translated, can it, if you result in three different messages? So once more, the Holy Spirit says, oh, in malice be infants, but in intellect be grown up men. You must test the gifts. We're nearly at the end, be encouraged. Have we as believers the right to be sick, that is depressed, in the church today? And how do we as brothers and sisters treat such incidents? I wouldn't say, my dear fellow believer, that you have a right to be depressed, uh, strictly speaking. Uh, Julesy, I think I know what you mean. Can a genuine believer suffer, uh, depression and still regard himself as a believer. And my answer is a wholehearted yes, of course. When our brains go a bit wonky, it doesn't prove we are not believers, any more than if you get stomach ache, that proves you're not a, a true believer. We must be realist. Our outer man perishes. We're subject to the frailty of the body. And to tell people that if only they had strong enough faith, they would never be ill, and they oughtn't to be depressed, because if they are depressed, that shows their faith isn't very strong, and they're scarcely believers, is a sad, sad, sad misinterpretation of scripture. And I personally have had to deal with people like it. What a sorry thing. And the Lord comes near to comfort and to help. And we need to support such and to confirm their faith so that the Lord may bring them through. You tempt me to say a lot more things. I mustn't say that now. But yes, if that's what you mean, have you a right to be depressed? Well, in that sense, yes. It means if you're depressed, does it mean you're not a Christian? Certainly not. I sat in a car once with a dear, dear believer who had been diagnosed as having cancer of the brain. His brain had been opened, they'd scrap- scraped what they could off of the cancer, and now he was left. And he had been told that if he had enough faith, God would heal him. This he told me in the car as we motored back after a conference one day. He said, David, what do you think of it? I said, my dear good friend, calling them by name, I believe God heals diseases, for it is he that has made our bodies so they can heal. If we didn't have such a system in the body, we never would heal of anything, and God it is, that when we heal, it is God that heals us. As the old Latins used to say, the doctor treats you, it's God that heals you. They said, also, I do believe that God sometimes, in answer to prayer, will intervene miraculously and heal. But I don't believe that it is in redemption in the sense that when we get ill, we can claim to be healed because Christ died for us at Calvary. Because if then you say, well, you're not healed, and that's because you don't have enough faith. Oh dear. Will you tell me, because my faith sometimes is a bit wonky, I don't have eternal life either, and if only I had a bit more faith, I would get salvation. You don't tell me that, do you? So I told him what I felt. David, he said, you're telling me what I don't want to hear. We parted company at Heathrow. Presently, I got a letter. Big handwriting. Miracle, the Lord has healed me. And I thank God for it. A few more months passed, and I got a letter from his widow. She said, David, I feel like somebody had been led up a mountain by a guide, and at last, after a painful ascent, I'd reached the summit, only to find before me was a gaping hole. And when I looked round, the guide had gone. Oh dear, we need to get these things right, don't we? Instead of bolstering his faith to endure what the Lord might have allowed, they nearly destroyed his wise faith by holding- by holding out promises that were not according to scripture. If the church began at Pentecost, why did- why did Christ speak of the church in Matthew eighteen? Because he said, I will build my church, not I am building it. He was prophesying what he would do in the future. Could you comment on one Corinthians fourteen, thirty four to forty five, thirty five? Well, I will do, do see, and the verses thirty three to thirty, thirty two and thirty three and so forth, I would do if I had the time. I'm not seeking an excuse, but I have my eyes upon the clock, and I would really like to come again, but if I exceed the time, they'll never ask me. So may God bless us now. And as I close, I would remind you not now of the gifts of the Spirit, but the gift of the Spirit himself. Let us not be so concerned with the gifts of the Spirit that we forget about the gift of the Spirit and his ongoing work in our hearts. And Paul prays that God will grant us to be strengthened with all might by his Spirit in the inner man, that we may be rooted and grounded in love, and know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge. So may it be for each one of us. If I'm going to use my gift of write, oh, how I shall need constantly and daily the work of the Holy Spirit himself in my heart, strengthening me. By the spirit of wisdom and knowledge in the revelation of Christ, that I might come to see what is the glory of God's inheritance in the saints, and what is his exceeding power towards us, which he wrought in Christ when he raised him from the dead. So may God bless us one and all, for Christ's name's sake. Amen.