Unknown, Unknown: Phoenix Conference Bible Reading Romans 5 Tape 5748

But we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience, and patience experience, and experience hope, and hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die, yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his own love toward us, and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by or in his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we now receive, by whom we have now received the atonement, or a better word is the reconciliation. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. For until the law, sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one, many be dead, much more the grace of God and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one man that sinned, so is the gift. For the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offenses unto justification. For if by one man's offense death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, Mm. even so by the righteousness of one, the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience, many were made, or many were constituted sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be constituted righteous. Moreover, the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life. And notice his full title, by Jesus Christ our Lord. The subjects of human guilt and divine grace have been faithfully dealt with in chapters one to four. The grace of God, apart from the law, the principle of works, has procured the blessing of justification through the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ for every believing sinner. We were looking at justification yesterday, and I've thought a little bit more about it, and this is how I would define or attempt to define justification. Justification is the clearance of the guilty one in God's court of justice. In order that he or she might be brought into a new and lasting relationship with God. Now that's what we are going to look at today, the fact of justification and its blessed results to those who believe. I want you to notice that the chapter is divided into two clear sections, and we will closely adhere to this in our study this morning. From verse one to verse eleven, uh I want you to notice the very first word of verse ele- one, therefore. Here we've got the therefore of justification. And then from verse twelve to verse twenty one, which is, is not apart from that teaching of one to eleven, but is a clearly defined and distinct section. And you'll notice verse twelve begins with the word wherefore. So you've got therefore, and now we've got wherefore. And this is the wherefore of identification. The therefore of justification and the wherefore of identification. And you'll notice that this profound chapter is expounding these two great themes. Now, several commentators have pointed out that there are seven blessings issuing from our justification. Let me quickly mention these to you. Verse one, we have peace with God. Verse two, access to a position of fav- favor. Again, at the end of verse two, we are exalting in the hope of the glory of God. In verse three, we are rejoicing in tribulations. In verse six, we have eternal security in Christ. In verse eleven, we are rejoicing in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. And at the end of verse eleven, we have now received the reconciliation. These are tremendous blessings, when you think about it. Now, the key to our first, uh, section, one to eleven, the therefore of justification, is clearly outlined for us by the Holy Spirit, by his usage of a Greek word, cockamo- cockamoi. That sounds pretty good, doesn't it? Well, it just simply means to, to boast or to rejoice in or, or to shout about, shout about it, says Paul. And what are these three things? Well, I want you to notice that he makes it very clear to us in verse three. we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. There's the first rejoicing. And then in verse three, we glory in tribulations also. And in verse eleven, we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Now those three words are the same word in the original. We rejoice, we glory, we joy, we boast in them. So we don't boast in ourselves, and we certainly don't boast in the law, but we boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Now I'll try and simplify that a bit more for our current meditation on this passage, and look at verses one to four to see the ground of our boasting. And then from five to eight, the guarantee of our boasting. And then from verse nine to eleven, the glorious future of our boasting. That's fairly simple, and that may help us in our study of, uh, this particular portion. But don't worry, I'll go over that once or twice, and we shall, um, easily be, make it easy for us to follow in our study. Now, I would like us to think about the next section here in verse, um, el- twelve to verse twenty one. This is a bit more difficult, this section. The wherefore of identification. You remember Job asked two questions in one verse, and I want you to listen to this, and I believe the Spirit of God in this section now is it is answering Job's two great questions. I want you to notice that the first question Job asked, how then can a man be justified with God? Now, I should have said to you, that is the Spirit of God answering Job's first question in verses one to eleven. How can a man be justified with God or before God? That he answers in one to eleven. But you remember he asked the other question, and it was, how can he be clean that is born of a woman? That he answers in twelve to twenty one, Because he's not now dealing with sins in their fruit, he's dealing with sin in its root. And that takes us back to Adam. And when Adam sinned, we sinned in Adam. And so God is now answering Job's question. How can a man be clean that is born of a woman? How is it possible? He tells us Christ is the answer. His death and burial and resurrection are the sole basis upon which God works. Condemnation in Adam, justification in Christ, and there is no other way. Now, let me tease out some of the difficult bits here, and then we'll, uh, leave the Bible reading open. The next section now we're looking at, you've got two federal heads. You've got Adam, you've got Christ. You've got Adam's posterity, you've got Christ's posterity. As we as believers now have had links with both of these. We've had links with Adam, a fallen head of a ruined race. We have links with Christ, our new federal head. Now, let me suggest it to your minds this way. In verses twelve and in verse fifteen, we have identification both with Adam and Christ through personal association. You see, we have a, an association, a physical or personal association with Adam, whether we want it or not. That's why I don't like to go back too far in my genealogy. A lot of people want to know their family tree. Well, I've never bothered that because I'm scared they take me back to Adam. Well, that's where we all began, and it wasn't a very good beginning, was it? So don't boast in your background too much, fellow believers. As our brother said before we left home this morning, it's not where we've come from, it's where we're going that really matters. That's what Paul's saying in this portion, really. But there, first of all then, I must say this quickly, we have identification both with A- with Adam and Christ through personal association. But then, in verses twelve to seventeen, we have identification both with Adam and Christ through, here's a big word now, judicial participation. That is what Adam is and what Christ is judicially before God. We have a participation in that. Now, thirdly, in verses fourteen, eighteen, nineteen, we have identification both with Adam and Christ through federal representation. We have a federal head in Adam and a federal head in Christ. Now that's easy to follow, isn't it? But the last bit is the most important bit, fellow believers. In twenty to twenty one, we have identification with Christ alone, without Adam. We've broken links with Adam now. We've only got one head now. You see, we belong to him. We've only one head, and that is through eternal exaltation. And because that blessed man is up there, and we're linked with him in exaltation, that makes all the difference between us and God. When we come to look at this second section, I have again divided it into three simple paragraphs that may help us to comprehend or understand this great section, and we shall look at verses three twelve to fourteen on the greatness of our ruin. Our ruin in Adam. Now, man doesn't like that, but it doesn't matter whether we like it or not. We are ruined in Adam. We want to see that. Number two, from fifteen to nineteen, the greatness of our rescue. God has come in, and he has rescued us from our ruin. Only God could do that. The law couldn't do it. And thirdly, the greatness of our reign. We reign with him through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Our ruin, our re- our rescue, and our reigning. That should help to... Those of you who don't like pea shooters and words starting with the same letter, forgive me, but that's how I think we'll maybe look at it today. I'm sure my brethren won't mind. My dear brethren, those of you in the audience, feel free to participate. If we're crowding you out, put your hand up, and I'll see it, and I'll stop these men, and I'll say, right, brother, you have preference. And I'm telling you, I'm going to do that. And if I've got it too difficult up here, I know a man down there, and I'm going to throw all my hard questions on him. And I know he's just sitting waiting to answer them all. Now, you've no idea who it is. But fellow believers, let us participate. Let us enjoy this reading, and let us move through as quickly as we can to complete the chapter, and yet as carefully and as helpfully as we can. We don't want to miss anything that is of importance. If you don't agree with me, I'll be very glad to debate it out with you. I really like an argument. And I'm not Irish, although they tell me my granny was Irish, so maybe that's where I get a bit of that. Bit of what? They're still talking to me. They don't, they can't define it, though. I said I've got a bit of that, but I just leave it there. Now, that's what we want to look at, fellow believers. Uh, we want to look, first of all, at the therefore of our justification, and we want to see in this nice section the, the ground of it, the guarantee of our boasting, and the glorious future associated it with it. So verse, keep in mind one to four is our first paragraph, the ground of our boasting. I noticed the revised version in verse one puts it this way, let us have peace with God. It is positional, and that would not be correct. This, this is the position of every believer. Is that true? I think it's positional teaching, Brother John, and I think you're right in pointing out that though the Revised Version may be helpful in places, I don't think it's helpful here. I would think there also is a sense in which, uh, we may be able to use it in the sense of entering into the enjoyment of what we have position on. Let us enjoy it. Let us enjoy it. But I think you're right in making that statement. What you, what you are saying then is that because of justification, we have been brought into perfect harmony with all that God is. Mm-hmm. And with all the claims of his throne, whether we are in the good of it or not. Mm-hmm. We should be in the good of it. Mm-hmm. But that is true of every child of God, whether they're enjoying it or not. Absolutely. And we must hold to that, brethren. I mean, a lot of people in our days begi- are beginning to push us away from what we have been taught over the years in our brethren stating very unequivocally to us that we've got standing and we've got state. We've got positional teaching and conditional teaching. I believe that still remains true, and we must stay by that. Whether we are answering to it or not, whether we are in the enjoyment of or not of it or not, it still does not alter the wonderful position into which the grace, the justifying grace of God has brought us. These truths, uh, Brother Jim, are in- intended to bring us into the enjoyment of things. That's right. And intended to affect our lives so that, uh, our condition is the same as our position. Exactly. There shouldn't be such a, an immense distance between what we are positionally and what we are conditionally. I think that is our problem, that we are inclined to keep that, uh, big distance apart, but that's not God's mind, is it? Mm-hmm. Would you make a difference, then, between peace with God and what we have in Philippians four, peace of God? A clear distinction, Brother Tom, yes. One issuing from the other, of course. But as you know, in the Epistle to the Romans, what we've got is foundational teaching relative to the truths of the gospel. What we have been brought into, and one, one of these great truths here is justification. Would you take that, Brother Jim, to be, um, this statement ha- uh, being justified, maybe, uh, more probably having been justified, that that is not an ongoing experience, Good. but it is something that took place in a moment of time. That's a good point that brought up, Peter. It's an act, and it can never be undone either. It can never be undone. Justification is justification. God has made us right. He's reckoned us righteous, and he has acquitted us of all charge of guilt. And where did he do it? He did it in his court of justice. That's the great point, not our side of it, his side. He did it by virtue of the work and person of the Lord Jesus. He fixed it all out, he sorted it all out in his very court of justice, because God wanted to dis- display and pour out his lavish grace and and love upon us. He always wanted to save us. He had the power to do it, but he didn't have the right to do it. Not until the death of the Lord Jesus had God the right to move in relation to his desires of grace. Would there be two things in verse one as well, uh, Brother Jim, that, uh, when we think of having been justified, Mm-hmm. that presupposes guilt. It does. We have peace with God, that presupposes enmity. Mm-hmm. I- I was thinking f- further on in verse ten when Yeah. the enmi- enmity is brought He's introducing it here in verse one. Yes. Yes, that's what I was thinking, there were two things. Definitely. Yeah. I remember not long ago, and thinking about the reading, I picked up a, a commentary, and uh, to me, I thought he was quite a reliable man, but I was staggered to, to note that he was endeavoring to establish the fact that God is acting in justifying grace because previously he had had an attitude of enmity to us because of our Adam's sin. That's not right. That's not right. Uh, uh, we had enmity with God, as our brother Phil has been telling us. All the enmity was in our side, but God has righteously removed the hostility in the death of Christ. That the world at large make peace pacts, but God doesn't make peace pikes. God removes the cause of the hostility. Isn't that great, eh? That God does that for us in the death of Christ. The cross of Christ enabled God to manifest his love in righteousness. Mm-hmm. That's right. He never, he always was love. His nature is love, but he Right. did not display that until the cross had been, cross work had been finished. Mm-hmm. Is that right? And John, that is the difference between love and grace, isn't it? Love is what God is in his nature, but grace is what God is in his character, how he displays that love, how he acts towards us. He acts towards us in righteous grace by virtue of the death of Christ. But it's his love that promoted it and prompted it in the first place. Would you say a better reading of of one would be therefore being justified, we have peace with God? It's not really hinging on our faith, is it, or, or is by faith? How would you feel that? Yeah, I, I see the point you're making, Brother Tom. Uh, it's, there's no question about it that he is emphasizing the principle of faith because there is no other ground on which we can come into the good of it. As I mentioned, the ground of our boasting, but it's not really faith is the ground, Christ is the work of Christ is the grounds. But our only link with that, our only contact with that is on the principle of faith, simply because faith takes us away from ourselves and casts us entirely upon God. Now, I hear my preaching brethren, and I'm not here to accuse them in any way. I pre- enjoy that they can preach the gospel far better than I can preach it. But I hear them say, now it's not a matter of believing. It is a matter of believing, brethren. No point in saying I believed and I believed and I believed till I was fed up believing, and then I got saved. Maybe Frank Knox said that. That doesn't make it absolutely right, because immediately we'll come back and we'll say, where did I get my assurance? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. So you're back to believing, aren't you? What it really means, fellow believers, I think, is that God is saying to us, now I am the source. The Lord Jesus is the cause and channel and the basis of your salvation. If you come to me, turning away from yourself and your sin and the law and all your accumulated virtue, and you come to me having repented of your guilt and rest entirely upon all that I have done and all the provision I have made, then salvation is yours. Wouldn't you say, uh, I- I've often, uh, looked at the expression in, uh, Isaiah chapter fifty three verse one where- where he commences with a, with a statement or with a question, and I really wonder if it's not one question. He says, who hath believed our report? So I definitely see human responsibility there. Then he says, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? So there is the truth of divine revelation. Mm-hmm. That really, but that when the gospel is preached, it's never preached to the sense that you have to have a revelation. That's right. They call upon sinners to respond Exactly. and to believe. Exactly. And it's often the rea- realization of their inability to respond that breaks them. Quite so. That's a good point, that Peter. That's really helpful. Now let's get on now to verse two, and um, and uh, we'll notice uh, by whom also we have access by faith into, by faith. To this grace. This grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Does this Through whom we have gained, it's all right, your next says by faith into this grace, okay. Uh, I was going to say previously, it comes in in this verse that justification is not only, uh, forgiveness, it's not only a clearance from past guilt, but it has to do with approval for the word to come and a present standing in the favor of God. So that this truth of justification would enable one to be established in the truth of eternal security. That's right. It's a once for all act, so those who don't believe in eternal security do not understand the truth of justification. That's right. The word there used is approvedness, isn't it? It's a really beautiful word, that. You... Yes, brother. Just a question. In Romans, we find four times justification is is mentioned. Romans 3, justified by grace. Romans three again, justified by his resurrection, and then justified by faith here, and justified by his blood. Can you reconcile? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I appreciate, let me say first of all, your question. It's a very helpful question now. And there is little doubt that the Spirit of God has brought those four facets of truth to our observation, to point out to us that we, we have its source, we have its basis, we have its principle by which it's made good to us, and we have its wonderful blessing as it comes to us through the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. And we must see all those four aspects in order to fully appreciate that the m- the magnitude of this great truth of justification, we must see that it has come from purely from the grace of is by faith in Christ alone. I want to thank you for that then. Would you say that, uh, justified by his resure- resurrection gives us the guarantee? That would be helpful. The assurance. Assurance, yeah. The fact that God raised the one who became accountable for our human guilt and sinership. God, in raising him, is testifying to the fact that that has been totally acceptable in his sight. Is that why the title of the person and title is given at the end of chapter one, and then it's on, it's in him, and then the standing comes in like we have an immediate benefit of, you might say, uh, justification, but you have a continuing benefit where we stand, and then you have a hope before us, like. It's wonderful how he summarizes it there at the end of the chapter, and that's what he's doing. He's drawing attention to, as we shall see, hopefully, that it required the the full titles of the Lord Jesus, in that sense, Jesus Christ our Lord, but we'll maybe come to that. In, and exalt, he said, or boast in the hope of the glory of God, in verse two, You'll remember that he has stated in chapter three that we came short of the glory of God. That's what you preach, isn't it? You tell sinners, you've come short of the glory of God, but now by the death of Christ and his justifying grace, we boast in the glory of God. It's a tremendous contrast, isn't it? That's future, isn't it? That's really future. Yes. Brother Jim, um. Now we may boast in it, John, but it's future as to its realization. In verse two, m this access, is this, is it the idea of being introduced into a sphere of grace? I think it's a standing in divine favor Yeah. that we're brought into, Brother Philip. Mm-hmm. Would you see that? Oh yes, I would. It's a, it's a standing of divine, divi- uh, divine favor, uh, that is the result of justification. Quite so. Isn't it, isn't it the idea of into every aspect of, of our position before God? Isn't he saying, now this standing into which you've been brought, it's both perfect and it's permanent. That whenever God does a work, he does it for eternity. God doesn't need to switch about or alter it in any way. When God does a thing, he does it righteously, he does it permanently, and that's it. Is there, is there the thought also, and if it's not there, don't be afraid to tell me, I won't be offended. Um. Don't worry, Peter. Um, that, that in verse one, it's the thought of a, the appropriation of it. It, it is through faith. Um, or in verse two, it's the appreciation of it. In other words, we enter into what we have by faith. There is nothing naturally that tells us that we have it or enables us to enjoy it. Mm-hmm. Is appreciating it from the word of God be confirmed that we appreciate the standing that we have. Right. And the things that standing will ultimately bring us into. And the very principle by which you initially came into the good of it and the possession of it is the same principle by which you enjoy it. Very good. Yeah. Yes, yes. Is the prodigal son a good example? He received the kiss of reconciliation, but then he was given the best robe of righteousness, shoes on his feet, perfectly at home in the father's presence. That's really nice, John, yes. I'll take a mental note of that one, yeah. Might use it sometime. That is really nice, that is good. But the prodigal, it wasn't enough to receive No. the kiss. No, not enough. He was received in his rags. Exactly. But in order to feel at home in the Father's presence, he had to have his shoes on his feet. The best robe was put on him. That is. So we will feel at home in the Father's presence, and we should feel at home in his presence now. Because we have a standing. We have a standing. We have a standing. We have been made suitable for the divine presence, haven't we? Mm-hmm. And the s- and the suitability couldn't be better. No. The suitability is great. Now, verse three, please. And not only so. By the way, for those of you who like to follow up expressions, that expression is found about five times. Not only so. And it's nice to, um, look at it. I'm not going to give you everything. This expression is found here, and, uh, I think it's lovely to see. Now we've considered our peace and our position Mm-hmm. and our prospects. That's John Ritchie, a straight quote from John Ritchie. And for you younger believers, I, I recommend to you that you read John Ritchie in the Epistle to the Romans. But anyway, that's what he states about that. The next words are my own. I might add. Now we're faced in this verse with process and progression and product. We've been highly favored, we've been brought into the standing. Now he brings in a, speaks about rejoicing in tribulations, because he's, he's going to tell us that tribulations work experience, and, and we'll see what that word really means, and experience hope, and hope maketh not ashamed. So there is a process now, there's a progress going on in relation to these things. That is, the outlook of our life has all changed now, and and we're able to look on sufferings and tribulations in an entirely different light. We are no different from the man and woman in the world. They contract diseases, uh, and things, and and we we have no immunity from them. But the major difference is, theirs is a bleak outlook. There's nothing after it all, whereas our tribulations and our experiences in life are all in the, in the purpose and use of God to, to, to develop and to, to mature us and to, to work out his will, and those whom he has justified, he's linking us on now later on with sanctification and so on, bringing us into chapter six that our brother, um, Harding will be dealing with. You can't isolate the first part of the verse, can you? We glory in tribulations and just leave it there. Mm-hmm. We have to link it on with what follows, knowing. Like, you can't tell if most believers don't glory in trials Trust not. and tribulations. Well, a- a- and it's not only because, uh, we have a bright prospect ahead. No. It's the present. Choose his character. Yes. Darned they link, though, Mr. Harding, that you had, like, the, the hope of the glory of God at the end of two. Mm. That's certainly future, but you're now brought to present experience, uh, day-to-day experiences where in connection with tribulation are experienced here. So there's a sort of a contrast drawn between what is assured ahead and what we experience here. I, I think it's leading up to that. I think that's the point, but I think the immediate, uh, answer is that it's the present use of it. It's what it- what is being produced. That's why I used that word. It's what is being developed. For example, uh, naturally we avoid pressures and tribulations. I don't think personally I would volunteer for tribulations. You know, I can't see that. I mean, the flight, the thirteen and a half hour non-stop flight across here, I would prefer it to be absolutely smooth instead of that big bird bouncing up and down for ten hours. I mean, none of us want to welcome. Well, I don't feel like welcoming it, but God is telling us that although these are things we may naturally avoid, that God is using these forces or these pressures to, to produce perseverance in us and character. That's where the, the word comes from. He's God's working to that end and, and so on. And remember, dear fellow believers, and I'm saying it kindly now, that it's not a matter of saying, well, this is the will of God, these circumstances are the will of God, and and there's a sullen submission to it, and we just accept it and we say, oh well, if this is how it is, I can't change it, so it's got to be that way. God said, no, I don't want you to look at it like that. I want you to, I want you to boast in your tribulations. I want you to see that I am using every circumstance to develop your character, and to to work effectively in you, and allow these pressures to to produce something of lasting spiritual value. I- it's like, uh, a weight, a weightlifter lifting weights, um, muscle strain and groan at weights being lifted, and it is not an enjoyable thing. Right. But but it is the very weights that the muscles lift that build the muscles. So we would naturally avoid things, but it's the very trials and, and tribulations that come into our experience that build Kes- uh, Christian character. That's right. So it's the value of it that, that they, that, that they counted a, a, a, they counted a value. It's not something that they're really happy about, Right. so they appreciate the value of it. Haven't we got that beautifully, uh, displayed in the life of Joseph? You know, I mean, looking at that man's integrity and, and all the way he, all the way through the way he lived, there is no way that I could come up with the idea that this man needs, uh, certain things done to him, you know. I think he's a fine young man, you know, but God saw it differently, and later on Joseph saw it differently too, and he told them that. He said, you've put me through a lot of you brethren and you people have put me through a fair lot, but it was God who was really working out. I could see it all now that God is fitting him for present and future, uh, administration and and all that kind of thing. But there was a development in Joseph's character that was so God-glorifying, whether it be the pit or the prison or the palace or whatever the case may be. Would you say that the devil would like to use these same afflictions to destroy us? Oh, yeah. The things that God want to use to develop us Yeah. is what the devil would like to use to destroy us, and so that would give us a sense of trying to appreciate that God is in control of our lives. Yeah. And in sen- in so doing, in that sense, I can rejoice. And these are the areas where I think we all fail it. I think that should be stressed too. I don't think any of us here are saying that when stress and pressure and problems come, that we stand up and I have a flat tire on the way home and I'm, I have to make a meeting or something, I don't just stand out and just jump up and down and get excited. I mean, those are times that are very difficult. Sure. Yet the devil like to use that to destroy me, and God would like to use it to develop. Of course he does. That's exactly how it works. I, I was thinking that there is a, a parallel, uh, in Hebrews twelve and 11. No chastisement for the present. It's a little different, I know. and yet there's a parallel. No chastisement for the presence is griev- uh, joyous but grievous. Nevertheless, afterward it yielded the piece of fruit of righteousness to them who are exercised thereby. Mm. And so in the circumstance, there has to be an exercise, if we can, we may not always do it, to determine the mind of God. Right. But our attitude to the circumstance i- is even more important than the circumstance itself. Brother Daugherty, I thought Paul put it well, and I noted it down just to get it right here. If Paul wrote this in two Corinthians twelve, therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my infirmities, so that Christ's power may rest on me. And Paul always related it to its proper, uh, place and motivation and everything else. He could see that if God is bringing him into certain circumstances, God intends that those particular infirmities and circumstances are intended to display his power, his working, his grace in him, all the more in a deeper, fuller, and grander fashion. And Paul seemed to fa- get a hold of that, and Joseph got a hold of that, and you've got it in relation to the Lord Jesus in Hebrews twelve at the beginning. Would it be right to suggest that a person rarely comes to that immediately, but rather that it's a, you mentioned the word progression as one of your B's. There, there is a progress made in our own soul's experience and in our acceptance of God's dealings with us in circumstances. It says it worketh. Yeah. That's good that, John. I was thinking in this connection there, you, you take in illustrations, try and gather up illustrations to help us to understand this. What about Job? Or Job, is it? Job. You've almost got it right, John. Try again. You didn't go to a school in Glasgow, did you? No. Job suffered affliction and endurance. Now, this word endurance is not passive patience. That's right. It's the spirit that overcomes difficulties and trials. Uh-huh. So this is Joseph, uh, J- Job, Job was not a patient man, really, was he? In the sense that we think of patient. No, I understand. He bore up and he endured the trial. Yeah, exactly. He just didn't sit down and it was happy under the circumstances. That's what I was saying. It wasn't a sullen submission, was it? No. And you take, for example, you've got Abraham and his Mariah, you've got Jacob and his Peniel, you've got Moses and his desert, you've got David and his Psalms, you've got John and his Patmos, the Isle of Patmos, you've got Paul and his infirmities, and you've got the Lord Jesus and his cross and his shame. And all of them are telling us the same story, aren't they? That the will of God is making use of all these vicissitudes of life and experiences of life. And immediately, as you said, we don't, we we we, it doesn't dawn upon us that all this is happening. Immediately, we think it's, oh, oh, the reason for this is this and that and the other, and we work it out rationally. But then God says, no, I don't want you to work it out rationally. I just want you to understand that I am making use of every pressure and every difficulty in your life because I've got certain things in mind for you, and I'm working it out for you. And where, when we see it that way, that the power of Christ may rest upon us, that makes all the difference. Brother Jim, when you, you're speaking of all these experiences, uh, you're not referring to the word here, patience worketh experience. Is that what, what is in your mind? I'm not. You said I'm not doing that, Mm-hmm. or this is not doing that. No, I, I was... I was saying that you are not referring, when you're referring to the experiences that we, uh, we pass through, Yeah. this is the will of God, and, uh, there is the endurance, uh, in these experiences that, uh, tribulation is working, uh, for us, the endurance under pressure. You're not referring those experiences to the word experience. No, no, that's right. Thanks for pointing that out. No, that's right. All I see is that, that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance produces character, and character produces hope. Yes. Isn't that what he's saying? And hope make it not ashamed. Yes, it's this word experience, which is related, as you know, to, uh, prove it. Right, about, uh, uh, that's right. It's really the idea of the manifestation of character that's being produced. That's good. As a result of That's good. the tribulations. It's used of metal passing through the fire to remove the dross, isn't that That's right. any of the word? Yeah. I heard Mr. True saying, brother Phil knows him well and was greatly helped by him, and I took a note of what he wrote many years ago. The refining of metals, the dross being burned away, character without impurities, or tried integrity, he called it, tried integrity. Can you hear him saying that? I can. Okay, there it is then. Now, let's come on down now, please, to, uh, the, the, this approval has been reached, and this in turn fills us with hope, you see, Ruvit, which maketh not ashamed. In other words, it's not an illusion, this hope, but but it's a grand reality. You see, that's what he's telling us. Realized here in time in this, in one sense, but soon to t- to be realized in glory. And that's the ultimate. That's what he's leading us to. Is that the same expression for ashamed? I didn't have a chance to look it up. I didn't have the books to, uh, that is found in Romans chapter one? I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. That it's really the thought, that not so much the thought I'm embarrassed by it. That's right. But the thought I will never have to retract the truth that I have said concerning it. It is able to accomplish all that I have said and all that it says. Rather the word confidence. Yes. That idea. So, so it would That's the same one here. So that the, so that the tribulations not only, uh, produces perseverance, it also produces character, and it results in a confidence Mm-hmm. relative to, uh, the future. That's good, that. That is really what he's doing. It won't be disappointing, isn't it? No, it won't be disappointing. In other words, they w- the world was telling them they're going to be disappointed by doing this, but you're re- reassuring them that it won't be disappointing. Well, really, that's the verse in, the word in verse five Yes. Brother Tom. And hope does not disappoint us because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit whom he has given us. Now we're coming to the guarantee of our boasting. Yeah. Yeah, the guarantee of our exalting. So that the, the evidence, the proof that God is working in us gives us the confidence as to the future. That's right. But then we have a guarantee, as you're saying in the following verses. That's it. That's what we've got. And uh, maybe a better word would be pledge. Yeah. The Holy Spirit is, is the pledge to us. Mm-hmm. And that the love of God is poured forth like a torrent. Yeah. There to remain by the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit is the one, he's the seal of our present relationship. The Holy Spirit is the seal of our present relationship, and he's the earnest or pledge of coming glory. Ephesians one tells us that, doesn't it? So it's marvelous to think. Now keep in mind, fellow believers, that this is the first reference to the Holy Spirit in the Epistle to the Romans. He's come all the way through chapters one, two, three, four, and not until this verse in chapter five have we a, a direct reference to the Holy Spirit. The point is, like the Galatian letter, Paul establishes the fact of human guilt and divine grace resting on the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit then comes in to make all that good to us in a practical way. Now, when we move on, you don't, you've got to, our brother Harding will be taking up references, no doubt, to in chapter six or seven. not much there, not until you come into chapter eight. That's your chapter, isn't it, Mr. Klein? You want us to go there first? You can't get there first until you go through these chapters. And, and there the Holy Spirit is, is taken up volumously. He's the one who is, who is in full command in chapter eight, and he's the one who is making everything good to us. He's making it all realistic and, and blessedly, uh, real to us, to our experience, experiences and our souls. Is it by the Holy Spirit or through the Holy Spirit? Um. In verse five. He has poured out his love in- into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. Is the Holy Spirit the agent? The agent. Exactly. He's the agent. That's the point, so. There's no definite article there, is any significance in that? About the Holy Spirit? Yes. I think because he's not yet coming into the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, brother John. So he's not dealing with the Holy Spirit, uh, personally, but he's dealing with the Spirit characteristically in relation to his work. Yes, and and yet we do see, uh, clearly, uh, that point, uh, that the apostle is speaking about when he, when he uses the expression there in verse five, uh, which is given unto us. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I see that. But I still think that he's not really developing it at this stage, brother. Oh no, I would agree with that. What I'm saying is that it's characteristic here because it's not a Yeah. a definite article. Quite so. Uh, but at the same time, the apostle is showing, uh, that here is something with- which has happened in the past as far as the believers are concerned. Yeah. But there's a continuing effect. It's continually being poured out. That's- that's the presence of the Holy Spirit, Spirit makes these things good to us. Yes. Enables us to enjoy these things, is that right? Right, but the ho- I think that Brother Phil is right in saying that by the presence of the Holy Spirit, there continues the, the pouring out of this love of God, this saturation of the love of God i- i- in our hearts, you know, by the Holy Spirit. Brother, Brother Jim, um... Why is there, uh, the reference to the Holy Spirit? I- I- I mean, there are many occasions, especially in chapter eight, where the reference being to the Holy Spirit is just the Spirit. That's right. Uh, I- I was always taught, and this is a question, I'm not Mm-hmm. looking to handed it back, um, that the- the presentation of the name of the Lord Jesus, even the order of the presentation of his name Mm-hmm. is always significant. Mm-hmm. Um, is it because it's the first time it's been mentioned i- in the book of the Romans that the full title, the Holy Spirit of, of God or the Holy Ghost, i- is given, or, and maybe that's why the article is not there, because he is the only one, it is this definitely the Holy Spirit when it's, has the adjective holy before, before him. So, um, but what is the significance of the Holy Spirit? Well, I have noticed in various references or occasions where, where the Holy Spirit is underlined as the Holy Spirit, that there seems to be a moral and practical thing in mind, the outworking of, um, o- of purity or the outworking of conditions in the life of the believer. When you've got the Spirit of God referred to as Spirit of God, it's more he working sovereignly in his own right, you know, but where it's related, where we have Holy Spirit, it's in his relationship, particularly to the believer, and the outworking of the divine purpose and the work of Christ in connection with the believer. But really appropriate because of the circumstances, the tribulation and the like. It's appropriate in the sense that the title. Very much so, very much so. Is it not connected with verse six? For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. We were ungodly, and now we're indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I- Sure. I had thought that the, uh, that was the link here. Yes. Is the, uh, speaking of the holiness of the Spirit, Holy Spirit. Yes. I know he's not dealing with the doctrine, but, uh, it's here in contrast to What we were. What we were. That's it. Well, he's going on to tell us, isn't he? He's, he's underscoring three things. Number one, what we were. What, what were we? We were without strength, verse six. We were ungodly, verse six. We were sinners, verse eight. We were enemies, verse ten. That's what we were. But what we are now, we are justified, verse eight. We are reconciled, verse ten. What we shall be, verse nine, delivered from wrath. Verse ten, preserved in his life. So he really is developing things very magnificently to us, and he's showing what we were, what we are, and what we shall be. I mean, that- that's well set out by- by Paul, isn't it? And we were hearing yesterday about Paul the debater, or Paul the one who argues for a case. Paul is not arguing in chapter five. He's not debating anything. He's making affirmative statements with all the confidence that God has given him, and that's the difference. He switched from the courthouse now, courtroom, and he's now making marvelous statements that the Spirit of God has communicated to him. It's beautiful to see it that way, isn't it? Yes, brother. Now, would you care to comment on the time, in due time? What time is this? Well, the appropriate time, isn't it? God's right time. After, after the course of human ages, after things up until this point have been going on, and God has tried man under conscience, and he's tried him under another administration, he's tried them under law, whether it be Jew, a bunch of a nation of Jews, that is not the point. God is only trying a segment of humanity to show clearly that all are concluded under sin. And when he's brought the whole thing to an end and an issue, and there's no hope there, and there's no possible salvation and blessing there, he's letting us see that in due time Christ died for the ungodly, right at the end of the time under which man has been proven to be hopelessly lost. In God's time, really. Yeah. Everything else has been tested and tried. Now he says it's my turn. I was going to s- uh, ask Brother Jim, what you've said would be brought out in the expression while we were yet sinners. Mm-hmm. When God had proved in the past ages, under every circumstance and every environment of human history, that man was depraved and lost and ruined. Mm-hmm. And I had thought that the expression due time was the appointed time by God, Mm-hmm. in keeping with the prophecies of the Old Testament. Mm-hmm. I- I'm thinking particularly of, of Daniel chapter nine. Yes. The cutting off, that it was in due time, it was at the time that God had appointed. It was not before, and it was not after God had appointed a time. Mm. And that, and that time was in keeping with the fact that he had proved conclusively. That's very helpful, brother Paul, really helpful. I'd link this up with John chapter five. There was a man impotent. This word impotent is the same as without strength. Uh-huh.